The Transcript: The one about Purpose

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Mercedes: Hello, hello! And welcome to The Everything Else podcast. I am Mercedes…

Vera And I’m Vera!

Oh, my God! It feels so good to be back! Did you guys miss us?

This is season 2!

So, yes… we took a break, because, well we needed it, and we wanted to change some things for this second season.

That’s right! Quite a few changes. First of all, we changed our frequency. We’re going to be dropping one episode a month… We are not going to be doing bonus tracks anymore -

That’s a relief!

- just one jam-packed episode with all the usual rambling, questions and hacks.

All right! Damn right! And thanks to the wonderful support from you guys, our listeners, and the fact that you share and recommend this podcast, we were also able to bring on a team of sound guys from UYcast. Alright, go ahead sound guys, make some noise… wouldn’t it be embarrassing if they didn’t make any noise there? But, we are excited about this, we’re moving up in the world!

Yes, we are. And we also changed our name from soft skills to core skills.

Why? Why?

Well, because, after all the hard work we did last year, and the hard work that you guys did, thinking, questioning, changing, we decided that we didn’t want to talk about SOFT skills anymore.

Yeah… that’s right, because “soft”, it has a mushy, sort of unimportant connotation, doesn’t it?

Yeah, and we all know there’s nothing unimportant about them, so we’re finally calling them core skills.

I love it!

Because they are core to our lives.

Love it. So today, my dear listeners, as you go about doing whatever it is that you do while you listen to us rambling, maybe you’re washing the dishes or some other very mundane house chore, or taking a walk, or sitting down for a relaxing moment, join us as we talk about something that is not so mundane…

Yes, because this is the one about Purpose.

You know, I feel like we’re always saying that this is THE issue when we present a topic… I think this time, it really is.

Yes, this time it’s for real. It’s THE issue because, well, this is a philosophical question that humans have explored and tried to answer for thousands of years, right? Now, through the years, much has been said about purpose and lately it’s gained even more traction, starting with younger generations. For example, 94% of millennials say that they want to use their skills at work to serve a purpose. Not only people, but also companies have now started to talk about purpose. Here’s a fun fact; apparently, there are 152,000 books on the subject of purpose…

And now, another podcast…

And in spite of all this literature and podcasts and blogs, a study conducted by Harvard Business Review found that only 20% of Harvard students had a strong sense of individual purpose.

Only?

Only 20% of Harvard students. And it’s that it sounds a little intimidating, doesn’t it? YOUR PURPOSE. This is not a test you want to fail at, right? So… what are we talking about here?

Okay. So, first of all…I am not sure if it’s more traction that it has now. Because this has been said to be a big issue, if not the issue, throughout the years, hasn’t it? Maybe it wasn’t always calling it “purpose”, but this has been the underlying matter throughout human history.

Yeah.

Remember, after all, we are the only creatures that are aware of the finitude of their existence -

That we know of!

- yes, that we know of. And knowing that this existence is limited makes us look for transcendence. And humans have certainly been trying to leave a mark somehow, something to let others know that they were there. That once we die, we don’t fully disappear into oblivion. That this whole ordeal on earth was not in vain…

“The ordeal”… Right, so, in simple terms: that my life has meaning, right?

Yeah. And we will remember it.

A why; a purpose… So, you guys, before you start having an existential crisis, chill, we’re here to help.

Yes. This is very important, Mer. Because many times people dive by themselves straight into these questions and go from denial -or sometimes plain rejection- to asking themselves about their deep feelings and when they do this so bluntly, or too alone, they end up feeling overwhelmed, and that is not the idea either. So we are here to offer a hand.

Yeah, and also, we don’t want to add yet another point to the huge life checklist that we’re always faced with, right? Another “should” for the “shouldstorm”.

Yes… that’s a huge point also. What we want is to spark curiosity, not feelings of inadequacy. So, on this episode, we’ll be discussing what purpose is, why we should be exploring the issue, in what contexts we can talk about purpose and how some people go about finding it. Are we ready?

As I’ll ever be.

— — -

Let’s start with the basics here. We mentioned before, we are aware of our own existence, and its finitude. We know it’s going to end, and this is true for all of us.

“Death and taxes”, they say, right? Those are the only two things that happen to everyone.

Yes, and so, that means that we are inevitably existential. Viktor Frankl actually proposed that to our concept of humans as Bio-psycho-social beings that we always talk about needs to be added Spiritual beings. And before you freak out, spiritual does not mean religious. Whatever religion it is. Spiritual does not mean religious.

I heard Gloria Steinem once described religion as politics in the sky. Can I say something, now that you mentioned this? When talking about purpose, we listened to a lot of podcasts and read a lot of things before we were doing this episode, right? And I find that, many times, it’s associated to religion and it makes me (in particular) a little uncomfortable. I think for other people it might be fine, but I think that we should be able to find a purpose, no matter what religion or non-religion we have. I don’t want to get all nihilist, like, “God is dead” on you, but I do think that Nietzsche had a point… The Frankfurt school of thought, the enlightenment movement, you know, we have to go beyond religion and find purpose on our own. We have to be captains of our own ships.

Look at you, quoting Nietzsche…

Ah, well… Pinterest had no motivational purpose posters so I had to go old school.

Jokes aside though, I agree with you here. Nietzche had a point. Well, actually, he had many points! But talking about purpose can take a turn to religion many times. It is in essence a philosophical issue, though, that religion can have some answers to, but, like you said, in the effort to become captains of our own ships, and because we’re philosophy buffs here, we are going to focus on the philosophical aspects of it.

All right, good… that and the fact that you wouldn’t have any Greeks to quote if we didn’t.

Of course. So, going back to Frankl and spirituality (not religion). According to him, spirituality is, in essence, a dimension of human beings. Humans are like Jorge Drexler says it: Un animal prodigioso… Con la delirante obsesión de querer perdurar… That is, a prodigious creature, with the delirious obsession of escaping the test of time. So sorry, Jorge, for destroying your beautiful poetry with this translation!

The delirious obsession of escaping the test of time… that’s beautiful and also pretty accurate.

Yup… We’ve mentioned this a couple of times, I know. Humans, we long for that connection, to transcend our own existence. We yearn to matter, you know. To be loved. We are all aware of this, though life sometimes makes this more obvious to some more than to others, we might say. But we all know at some point or another that our time on Earth is limited and our existence is frail.

Yeah, and as we’ve said sometimes dealing with this for many is just hard. And society, particularly nowadays, offers many, many distractions to avoid thinking about this, right?

Yes, totally. So, why would we do this?

I don’t know, you tell me!

Well… Frankl warns us against going distracting ourselves and sweeping under the rug. He was very emphatic when talking about the importance of integrating your spiritual dimension to live a more authentic, meaningful and satisfying life. How? Well… The prescription here did not change much in thousands of years, because, to put one name, it’s what the Greeks refer to as practicing a life of contemplation.

Mhm, there they are! There’re the Greeks! So, what would contemplation look like now?

Well, being in contact with ourselves, devoting time to knowing ourselves, for reflection, to keep in check with what matters to us the most, what moves us, what makes us tick. Understand what it is that, although it might look good on paper and work for others, it does not do the trick for us. We have to be aware of that.

This is important, yes.

So, to do this, we need to exercise this muscle of thinking slow, you know?

Yeah, thinking, just, in general, right? Not just going through the motions on autopilot.

Ooh, definitely. And, as Frankl himself put it: that is how we pursue our search for meaning. And let me just emphasize that this is a search for meaning. This is a process that we need to keep doing. It’s not a one-time thing, right?

Yeah, a life-long purpose, or process. Ok, can we just stop here for a second to recap?

Purpose, then, is this individual search for meaning. For your own meaning and transcendence. I heard Simon Sinek talk about purpose as “what you give to the world”, and I think that definition fits with these purposes you mentioned. It’s important for life, in all areas, and not just work. And it’s an ongoing process, because our realities change, life is dynamic, we change… those around us change. We grow and learn and discover new things about ourselves and others, and that’s all part of it, right?

Yeah! Because life means change… and we need to embrace that. But that also implies that we need to ask ourselves whether what we are doing… you know, we need to question ourselves frequently.

Yeah.

So, if how we are responding to life is serving our purpose or not.

Yeah, if you’re just going through the motions or if you’re actually doing it with intent.

Has this changed so much that now it’s not valid anymore? Is there something we need to change to adapt better? Because our circumstances change and they don’t always look pretty. But Frankl says that in all circumstances, we can feel we are living our lives in ways that are attuned with our intentions and our values. And before you take this and say “Oh, he was very naïve”, remember this comes from a concentration camp survivor.

He knows the shit that goes down.

So, intention, values, meaning, these are all words that go hand in hand with this search for purpose. I think it’s essential, though, to mention that even though this contemplation is very profound, the result of my purpose or my intentions, these are not great declarations, grand gestures, these are our everyday actions that we’re talking about, right? It never ceases to amaze me how very small actions, sometimes unwillingly, have enormous impact in our lives. Think about it, a teacher, a cousin, a mentor, a client — we’ve all got a small interaction that the other person may possibly not even be aware of, that that changed you, your perception of you, or of a problem, a lesson that you remember, which is just a gesture, right?

Yeah! That’s what it’s all about, right? Checking on this might sound like lots of work, but it’s not “meh” time.

And it’s definitely worth your while to dedicate time… but it’s not just time that we need here, right?

No, no! It requires a certain dose of courage to face these questions, these hard truths… but so worth your while! Give it a try!

So we hope this space that we are creating here can be a part of it, actually, to trigger some of these conversations. So, why is this important, then? I find that having a clear sense of purpose in our everyday life, in what we do, is definitely beneficial for our wellbeing, for living fuller lives, because it helps us to connect the dots, finding meaning in what we do, in how we spend our days and our hours… And Mark Twain, someone you always love quoting, Vera (I’m you today!) said that the two most important days in your life are the day that you were born, and the day that you find out why.

Ah, that quote moves me virtually to tears every time I hear it…

It’s a little intense, though…

Yes, it is… Purpose can guide life decisions, influence behavior, shape goals, offer a sense of direction. It basically helps us create meaning. It helps us make… It’s our personal compass, you know? It helps us make our personal answer to that existential, basic question of what is the meaning of all this, our why. Or, like Nietzche used to say: “He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how.” That is something, again, a Pinterest quote.

Now, if you need extra reasons to face this, and you think this is not enough, let’s talk about some warnings Frankl poses, the risks he sees of not fueling or limiting our spiritual dimension.

Sounds dangerous. What does he warn us about?

The risk of not fueling this dimension is the feeling of vacuum: an inability to find, or create even, meaning in life. And this results in feelings of emptiness, alienation, aimlessness, that might become a feeling of regret when you look back on your life and feel you made no difference, that your time on Earth did not matter.

Oh, holy shit! So, basically, becoming a “meh” person.

Yeah! Becoming a “meh” person!

I don’t know what Frankl would say about that, but…

But this, to many specialists, has become the ailment of the modern age, and that is why I celebrate that all this issue of purpose has gained so much traction in education of young children and teenagers and in adults, many times through the workplace.

Yeah, exactly. So, we’re saying that to explore purpose, we have to be connected to our spiritual dimension, in the sense that we have to transcend our own existence, to acknowledge how we want to be remembered, realizing that there is life beyond our own. And this always implies that we are part of something bigger than ourselves. And that what we can do contributes to that bigger picture of life.

Yes! Those moments give me goosebumps! These moments are just amazing.

I get the feeling that this might sound very new and the buzz all around this might be because many cultures are putting so much emphasis on the individual level, on the self. And, the way I see it, all this talk about purpose at work challenges this. Now, it puts the greater good back on the table. And this is not religious, it’s about finding a better balance between individual needs and collective needs.

That sums it up very well.

The needs of the team, the needs of society…

Now, we are also singular beings, but our singularities are connected to our surroundings, you know. We are with others. So, as teachers and leaders, we’ve seen this magic happens when we resonate with others, doesn’t it? It’s not about expressing ourselves only, the magic happens when what we produce generates something. For example, when we receive the attention from others, when people gather around an idea that matters to us, and this generates something in somebody else, this resonates in feeling less lonely. It makes us feel that our time on Earth matters.

Yeah, and it’s going from “what’s in it for me” to “what can I contribute, how can I help”. That said, though… In some lines of work it’s easier to see impact. I mean, I’m in education, I see the impact that Inc. has on our students every day, and it’s very rewarding, but I think for others it’s not so simple to see, right? What do you think?

Yes, totally. Remember I mentioned existential vacuum as the ailment of modern age? But this is something rarely seen in people, for example, who work in vocational jobs, like health-related jobs or education, or for people who are devoted to service, like firefighters, for example. These people might feel other things, especially in this unusual context. Many might feel exhaustion, burnout, stress of being underpaid or feeling unappreciated by others, but when asked about these profound things, they tend to say that they are serving a purpose. They know this, they feel this.

Yeah. I’ve heard the expression “the magic of the classroom”, actually, to illustrate how, once you enter the classroom and you start focusing on your students, all your problems seem to vanish. Like, I used to be really worried, and then I just closed the door and it would all just go away. It becomes more manageable, at least for a while. I really miss that.

I can definitely relate to that! For me there is nothing better to gain perspective of my own issues than helping others. The classroom or my practice are really magical to me. The change of focus helps so much! And what is more, you learn about others in that time, how they deal with it. And that also helps.

So, my patients and my students and all those I have worked with have taught me so much about life and all these reflections that we shared have triggered in me contributions to my own search for meaning. I am with others, remember?

Yeah. It’s a good thing we talk about these everyday life examples, though, because sometimes we have this really romantic idea of what impact is, of what it means to have a purpose, and we fantasize about travelling to a far off land to help kids who are starving, and we visualize that as helping. You know, when you said today, by helping others.

Change the world.

Yeah! It’s always extreme, isn’t it? And we visualize that as changing, having an impact. And we are so grateful that people do that. But you don’t have to be a self-sacrificing martyr to have a purpose… you can have impact without leaving your house, with your kids, your family, your work, your team, your community, as you mentioned today. Something like giving advice to someone who just happened to be open to hearing it. Helping out younger co-workers, opening doors to them. That’s the purpose: connection, in a sense, true connection, that always brings about change.

Definitely.

Can I just make a disclaimer here? I want to highlight that when we talk about what you do, we’re not talking about your job. It’s not your position or job description. There’s too much pressure on your job already. What you do is far wider than that, it’s how you relate, the relationships that you build, the things that you teach people, in a much, much broader sense. And we have to make an effort not to confuse who we are with what we do for a living.

Can you say that again, please? Because I think that is fundamental.

We have to make an effort not to confuse who we are with what we do for a living. I think when that happens, it’s really difficult to separate for some people, because then when something happens to your job, and you lose your work identity, you lose your own identity… and that sort of breaks you down. So I think it’s really important, because people always connect this sense of purpose to their job, right?

You know, I remember back when I had several teaching jobs, an aunt used to say to me: there are some for “el gusto” and others for “el gasto”. “El gasto” is money. Because it’s true. Some jobs are a means to get the money you need to live the lifestyle and experiences you want to live; and my aunt in all her wisdom used to say: it was good to combine them to some degree to have both. The other one for her, the ones that are for “el gusto”, are the ones that respond to your vocation, to your call. And although some people can respond to this call through their jobs, many times people achieve this not through the position in the company where they work; they do this through how they do their jobs, or a side hustle, a hobby, or even through their lifestyle, interests that they can do to pursue outside work if their jobs enable them to do it. So what you need to remember is to make sure you’re getting both: something for “el gasto” and something for “el gusto”.

You know, I think it’s important to talk about money at this point.

Let’s talk about “el gasto”.

Because, in a way, it’s present even if we’re not aware of it. When we talk about purpose and our “why”, as many people call it, a lot of people may sort of automatically see themselves rolling in a pile of money, like that meme now.

Yeah, “I work for the money”.

But money is something that we desire, because we need it to live, and in our society, it’s many times the basis of opportunity and freedom. But I think it’s important that when we’re contemplating purpose, we do the following exercise, so that money doesn’t distract us, ’cause it always finds a way to hook you, doesn’t it? We have to think about all of this in a scenario where money is off the table. Let’s say that I have enough money to not worry about money…

Okay, can I just highlight there… enough money, not “all the money in the world”. Enough money to not worry about money.

Otherwise, if it’s just about “gasto”, in your aunt’s words, then we won’t get very far with this contemplation.

Yeah, the balance here.

All right, so, going back to the workplace, now that money is off the table, let’s talk about alignment of purposes. My purpose and the company’s purpose.

You know, working in IT, it’s so common for people to be asked constantly about “what are you passionate about?”. And yeah, being in touch with your passion, feeling ignited is awesome, for you, as we discussed before, and it can also serve the purpose of companies… because ignited people, passionate people, will bring that along and will probably give the best of themselves.

But I think we need to listen to what Byul Chun Han has to say here…

Byul Chun Han?

Yes! He’s this Korean-German philosopher, and he says that… he doesn’t say this, but we can take this from what he says, that we need to be very responsible with this. Because this is a gift. People’s passion and purpose are something, I think, is very precious that people are sharing with us, with companies. When this alignment actually happens, and people actually see your company as a platform through which they can serve their personal purpose, the company needs to take this responsibly and take care of people’s wellbeing. Openly appreciating that they are giving their best, but, above all, NOT pushing them till they collapse. Because burnout is serious stuff. He talks about the burnout society.

It’s taking advantage of people’s passions.

Yes!

I see that happening all the time. Now, talking about purpose in companies, the same thing happens as what we mentioned earlier. Some companies or projects are very purpose-driven, particularly in social projects, health, education… What happens when your company sells something you feel doesn’t really make a difference, though? It might be a little tougher to find a purpose that you can get behind. But, again, because purpose is not WHAT you do, but HOW you do it, as we mentioned before, a company that sells something you don’t care much about can have an awesome, purpose-driven policy within the company, or sponsor social projects that align with a purpose that you can get behind. It’s not only in the final product that the company sells, but in the essence of the company, just like with people.

Yep! I have to say that, for me, there are limits to this, though. I think we each have our own personal limits, where we draw the line and we think, “well… that is just wrong.” And when working for a company that does something you profoundly disagree with, you could have… it could result in serious internal conflict.

Well, yeah, there are times when you have to say no, and it might not be right away, because of the money issue that we mentioned before, but you know that, eventually, you have to work towards being able to say no. To avoid that conflict.

Yes.

— — -

So, let’s recap. If this alignment of your personal purpose and your company’s is to be useful for you to live a more authentic and meaningful life, it has to be connected to your essence. And that implies lots of trust, of psychological safety and courage on both parts many times.

Yeah, because both parts have to be willing and open, and respectful, like you said before, to have this type of conversation in the workplace. Now, this can be counterintuitive to many today because much of what used to be private, now seems to be part of what we share and we make public, for example, on social media, right?

Everybody sharing their purpose-related posts on Linkedin, for example…

There’s a lot of that going on, and it seems logical that if we take these conversations lightly, it can end up fueling a false sense of self. And this is really important, because if everyone’s just having a conversation and not taking it seriously, our purpose might not sound exciting or even flattering, but, as HBR describes it…

It was an article from Purpose to Impact. I read about this, and it’s very interesting.

It’s not what you think it should be, it’s who you can’t help being.

Can we say that again?

It’s not who you think it should be, it’s who you can’t avoid being, who you are. So, I can’t state my purpose based on what I assume that others are expecting of me, and feeling sometimes very different on my inside.

Well, because that can end up being very negative for you. It may result in a deep sense of void and loneliness… that false sense of self, it’s called, right? Between what you say and what you know deep down about yourself. That is not good news for your wellbeing, you know, guys? Don’t go that way.

No… and this statement of purpose, it doesn’t have to be necessarily grand or flattering. I think this is a very interesting point. You might be the person that always says it like it is, and you make people uncomfortable, or you’re the pain-in-the-ass person that always pushes somebody else outside of their comfort zone.

But, deep down, besides the way you do that, that is helping others go beyond themselves, so it’s also how you tell the story.

It’s how you tell the story, but sometimes you do it because you push people uncomfortably, and it doesn’t sound good when you say it. It’s not the same to tell someone, no? But that’s what you do, that’s how you push people, and get a result, and you’re needed. So, it doesn’t have to be flattering, let’s say.

And it’s the same with companies and their purpose. There is lots of bullshit claims for purpose. I’m sorry, but, I mean… Do you really think Facebook’s purpose is to connect people? I’m sorry, Zuck, but… at a time, maybe it was, but, as with purpose, meaning can be lost and it can become only pretty banners on the walls, and it’s really important to address that.

I see companies are also feeling a lot of pressure of having a solid purpose, these big phrases. And if this quest is taken lightly, as you were saying, this might just mean to be a way to attract people, customers, talent, but eventually people see through this.

Yeah! It’s like “purpose-washing”, I don’t know if that exists.

Like greenwashing, but purpose-washing. Ethical washing.

So, yeah, I think people see through it, and that’s why we’re in a bit of purpose crisis, right? According to Forbes, almost 60% of employees that are familiar with their company’s mission and purpose, are not motivated by it. What does that mean? They’re not drinking the Koolaid! They’re not buying your crap! In essence, we’re talking about a no-bullshit approach, complete honesty. We have the chance to go for actual connection.

I must say, at times, I really believe this conversation in the workplace is an awesome opportunity, a door that opens up for a cultural change. Other days, though, I wake up a bit more cynical. But I believe so much in helping others ignite their souls that I consciously choose to believe that this is possible, that we can do this.

Even if it’s about just swimming through the bullshit. It’s gonna happen, you’re gonna have some fake purposes, and then you’re gonna have some real ones. And we’re talking about the chance to actually make a change here, even if it’s in a few cases, a very positive impact as an entrepreneur or a business leader: living your life connected to what you actually care about, and trying to make some positive impact and acting accordingly. I think it’s worth the shot.

Totally, so worth the shot. And you might say “oh, this is very romantic,”… Yes, it is true. It does imply a degree of idealism. But, you know, as Frankl used to say… this was not him saying this, this was Goethe, and he said “when we treat man as he is we make him worse than he is. When we treat him as if he already was what he potentially could be, we make him what he should be.”

So you have to aim to treat people as what they could be.

We need to aim higher, and that will wake up the best in them. And I am convinced that this holds true to people. I’ve seen this happening. And, eventually, it is true for companies too, as they are… well, you know… made out of people.

It’s all great. We now know what purpose is, why it’s important for people and companies… but the fuck do I find my purpose?

She had to say it.

I can practically feel people on the other side saying “oh, finally, an answer to the question.” I don’t want to be a buzzkiller, you guys, but your answer can only be yours. This is like Yoda: nobody can give it to you. We can, however, give you some pointers…

Yeah! Some jobs, as we were saying, are more clearly connected to that idea of vocation. Vocational jobs. The word vocation comes from “calling”, you know?

Saying “calling” takes me back to Pixar’s film Soul and how it’s graphically depicted. Like when several things that we care about light up at the same time. It’s the opposite of apathy, it’s that joyous state, where we feel alive and energized. We vibrate, it’s what moves us. You know, in the words of Janis Joplin: you know you’ve got it… if it makes you feel good!

And that’s a good point, there is this dimension of the psyche where it’s all emotion. You know? There are things you just can’t put into words, that are difficult to grasp, let alone to communicate to others… these things that are so intertwined with our oneness, with our story, with what makes us unique… And, like Janis said, we feel it, and it’s very important to identify when we feel it. Whether it’s goosebumps, agitation, your eyes all welled up with tears, emotions are our thermometer to know if we are going towards something that is really connected to our purpose or not.

I love that! I loved the way that you describe it, because it’s not all intellect. Sometimes it’s like “oh, I have to think about it, and reason,” and sometimes you just have to feel it, right? Sometimes it’s that biological factor that brings about the feelings, and even though it sounds easy or really basic, it’s hard as hell… being attuned with emotions is not a simple task, and we need to cultivate ourselves to do this, to grasp it, to be open to these moments and experience them fully.

And that is why Emotional Intelligence and emotional literacy is highly regarded. Understanding and being able to read these cues. So we’ll circle back to that, don’t worry.

I did some coaching sessions a while back and my coach wisely said “purpose is not so much something that you have to look for, but something that you have to pay attention to and then take care of.”

Totally agree.

Yeah, it’s like it’s always been there.

So wisely said.

— —

Alright, so… let’s get real. Do you know what your purpose is? I haven’t found a 5-word description to mine. I’m still in the very beginning of the process. If I had to choose one, like a general one that I can get behind, it would be to be a force of change, a seed of rebellion or questioning, a hand, maybe, even. A smile or a phrase. The impact — I like to think of it as positive — you can have on a trainee that landed their first job in your company or a senior employee that you led, even if they leave, even if you now have a problem because they left. But anyone you teach something to that can now go and teach somebody else. Even you guys on the other side, listening now.

I feel most alive when people tell me that I had an impact. You cheered me up, you made me think, you touched me, you inspired me, you helped me. That’s the point for me right there.

The small things in life! Those moments of connection. Where we transcend — you know, I was listening to you, and they all rang the same bell for me. It’s when we transcend ourselves and touch somebody else’s life. Like, through that, we affect eternity, because you never know where that will stop. Sorry, I got a bit carried away over there.

No, I liked it. To be honest, though, as a leader, even more as an entrepreneur, when the going gets tough, like I was saying, even if they left…

Because sometimes it does get tough.

It does get tough! It’s not always easy to see this. My partner and I, we always ask ourselves, if, you know, why are we doing this, why am I still here, what’s the point of all this?

As an exercise, that’s good!

Particularly when it gets frustrating. So, Simon Sinek has a concept that I think works really well with this (he’s a guy obsessed with the why, with purpose). It’s the concept of the infinite game. We are, he says, at this moment, players in a game that has no end. That’s why I like what you said before, that you never know when it’s gonna stop, right? This game that has no end has no clear rules, and the players change all the time, right, so we can’t win! We can just be behind or ahead in the infinite game, so we have to get ourselves an infinite mindset. And in this sense, our purpose has to be infinite too, and meaning can change depending on the time or on the people.

Sometimes we identify easily what ignites us, we know what resonates in us in that special way. We are aware of that purpose that we pursue with our jobs, that infinite game that we are going towards. But it’s because we know what our ideals are, we look for ways to get closer to them, and we do this work, you know? The way it should be, should look like. But not everything you do is meaningful?

It’s a good point that you mentioned this!

I’m sorry, but people are all the time planning it, “is this towards my purpose?” Sometimes the bigger picture. We have to bear that in mind, I found. When each thing takes you a little bit closer to who you want to be or the life that you want to live, that’s when you think you’re doing things that really matter to you. So keep the broad sense, the infinite game. You never know when this is going to stop.

So… that sounds lovely… It’s a cut the crap moment. But much like the description of instrumental reasoning, it’s, like, very often our purpose gets hijacked, and I know that it doesn’t always have to be meaningful, but sometimes the whole purpose gets hijacked again.

And this is very important.

We’re always talking about this. And we end up becoming concerned and almost obsessed with how to achieve it, with the means and not the end. And then we get tempted and distracted in the middle, with shiny things, like more money, or power, or social status, that car, those shoes… You name it! And, in the end, that instrument becomes our purpose. And it becomes our why…

And not everything that glitters is gold, remember? Because that happens a lot, and Eric Hoffer — he’s another philosopher I like quoting — he says, “you can never get enough of what you don’t really want”. So you are raising a very important flag here. What we were discussing, again, is lots of work. Monitoring that we are living the lives we want to live, that we are making the choices in this changing context, is key. Always going back, circling back. Is this what we really want?

Yeah. You know, I also worry that when there’s a lot of emphasis on a company’s purpose, that employees and people hide behind these statements and they don’t work on their own search.

Oh, okay! Totally see what you mean.

And it ends up having this false… what was it that you called it? A false sense of purpose. It’s like, to me it feels like they borrow their company’s purpose (going back to the posts on LinkedIn)…

Like the false self.

Yes, that’s what you’re saying.

False sense of self, what we were talking about.

Right, so, they borrow the company’s purpose for a while, like they wear their company’s purpose as an accessory, as a status symbol… Purpose or just the job, you know? This really worries me because it can end up in people feeling even more void if they don’t have that job. Maybe they lose their job, or even when they go on vacation, like we mentioned last time, right? You think that you have it solved, but really, you’re just borrowing it from someone else.

Totally. Having this conversation in the workplace is new, and when it does happen and it is done authentically, when this is connected to reality, to what people actually experience, building culture around purpose does work. I really believe in this. But when it becomes a marketing strategy and they are slogans void of consistency, when it boils down to banners on the walls, as you were saying…. Well, it does not work so much.

And people don’t buy it, like you said.

People don’t buy it, but also it can be counterproductive and it can do lots of harm, actually.

— -

Alright! Rambling aside, I think it’s time for some Hacks. What can we do to be more connected to our purpose?

What can we do? Let’s see.

The first one would be to start making a habit of this contemplation. Not just listening to this today. You might want to externalize this; for example, you can have these conversations with a friend or partner, your mentor or coach, right?

Or with a therapist!

You shamelessly self-promoting… Do you want to give your number out or something?

Second strategy: connecting with what moves you. Pay attention to your physical and emotional signs, both positive and negative. Emotions are emotions. Some people think it’s a good idea to try and remember the things you enjoyed as a child, the games you played, the moments when flow was easier for you, but maybe, if that’s not the case, focus on what does the trick for you now… Take note of the things that take you out of a “meh” state. This might mean finding your wound, also, taking note of those things that make you feel the most furious or annoyed, you know? What you find unfair in the world and you want to see that solved.

The things that brighten you up or that get you fired up.

Exactly, both.

Alright. Third strategy: and this is linked to the idea of how little we really know ourselves. You try to find our purpose, and thinking about the things that we think ignite us. But Yuval Harari states that AI algorithms know us much more than we actually know ourselves. Scary shit. So it’s essential to start connecting with this, to know thyself. You talk to others about your own essence. Simon Sinek, we mentioned him before, he says that your friends know your purpose better than you do. And this is interesting… and it’s not your spouse or partner, and it’s not your parents because all of them are too invested in you and in your story… It has to be somebody a little bit more of an outsider. And so it works better with friends. It’s what your friends recognize as something that is typically you, something that they would say “ugh, that’s so Vera!” That they would miss the most if you weren’t around, but not traits, but how you make them feel.

May I highlight, this works best when it’s different views. The impression we leave on others. With a plural.

Fourth strategy: Learning from those we admire. Identifying what qualities in others we admire the most, as a leader or as a person. Ask what others you work with believe, giving them time to think about this, to learn and try integrating these things to work towards how we want to be remembered. Like, the ideal version of ourselves. What we want to work towards.

Like the TED Talk: “Live for your resume or your eulogy”.

Alright, so, fifth, as a company: take a no-bullshit approach to visualize your purpose on your end product and your internal policies. And again, it’s not what it should be, but what it is. Not only what it is, what I could aspire to be, like you said, what I could aspire to be, because I’m being realistic, I’m not gonna change the essence of the company and it has to be real, right? And if not, it’ll just never go beyond the banners on the wall. And you have to state it explicitly so that your employees could easily identify your purpose if they had to. I’m thinking, if you have a company where it’s difficult to do this, it could also be a nice exercise to do this together with your people, right?

Well, actually, we did that. We asked — we proposed some values based on what people were saying around, in the halls, and we made a poll so that we could prioritize them in order. Like, we voted for…

You voted?

Yeah.

I feel like that’s a way that you can get people behind them.

It represents them or something, it’s relevant to them, also.

Alright! Well, I think this is a wrap on the issue, as much of a wrap as we can do on such a huge issue. This is as much as we can do, and the rest is on you.

And remember, it’s a process, don’t try to get this done by the end of the week. It’s a question of awareness at first.

Thank you so much, as always, for gifting us your precious time, we super appreciate the listens, the comments, the likes, and the shares. Thank you all for supporting The Everything Else and sharing this with others. And if you’re not sharing this with others, it’s a good moment to start!

Yes, please!

We’ll meet again in our next episode! And until then, remember to focus on the everything else.

Bye!